HIT CALLING! READ UP!! THIS IS IMPORTANT!

[CREEPER™]

Rules change?

These are the opinions of CREEPER and do not reflect the opinions of DSA, BOA, or SDS. 

Someone remind me as to why, that during the rules speech before we play a game, it's always said "NO CALLING OUT GUYS FOR NOT CALLING THEIR HITS!"........seriously? WTFRUIT?  

Does anyone other than me think this is stupid?  Can anyone other than me see that this rule only empowers the dishonorable players? 

EXAMPLE: 

CREEPER VS VADER....scratch that....we both sound evil.  

CREEPER (dishonorable player) VS
 DYNOMUT (good player)

Moving thru the bushes, DYNOMUT spots CREEPER picking his nose.   DYNOMUT knows CREEPER Doesn't see him yet.  Taking aim, DYNOMUT squeezes off a SHORT burst at the CREEPER,  squarely landing 3 out of 4 rounds into his torso.  One bb even knocks the newly acquired booger of CREEPER's finger.  It was VERY OBVIOUS to them both that CREEPER had been hit multiple times.    Not only is this an epic kill, but gives DYNOMUTS team a tactical advantage as CREEPER was guarding an objective.  But just as DYNOMUT is thinking "AWRITE!!" , CREEPER swings around with a very shiny and very powerful AK74, and returns fire at an MED way too close for his FPS range......a "short" of only 75-80 rounds at that.  

Why did CREEPER do that? 

1. He knows DYNOMUT is an honorable player, and that he calls his hits no matter what. 

2. He knows that just one hour earlier the game admin had announced "DO NOT CALL ANOTHER PLAYER OUT FOR NOT CALLING HIS HITS!!! IF YOU DO, YOU'LL BE ASKED TO LEAVE!!!"

3. He  wants to "win"

4. He doesn't wanna walk back to respawn. 

5.  He's a tool. 

Now, the game admin had also added,  "IF THAT PLAYER DOESN'T CALL HIS HITS, JUST KEEP SHOOTING HIM!!" 

With this in mind, DYNOMUT has two choices:

1.  Call the unfair hit and walk back to respawn. 

2. Do as the game admin said and keep shooting the CREEPER. 

Either way, DYNOMUT is screwed. 
Having tasted the vicious bite of that VERY shiny and VERY powerful AK before, AND knowing that at best, he has 300 rounds in a mag VS  the 600 rounds in the mag of that fire-breathing AK, the noble DYNOMUT has no choice but to call the unfair hit, and walk back to respawn; mad enough to slap his grandmaw.  

Why do we reward and protect the dishonorable player while we punish the honorable one?  

STUPID RULE. 

why is it more frowned upon to call out a dishonorable player, and encouraged to be a  tool who KNOWINGLY won't call his hits??  

IMHO, there are only two solutions:

1.  REVERSE the rule and ENCOURAGE the HONEST calling out of these dishonorable players 

2.  UP the fps and SHORTEN the MEDs until we literally start to draw blood.  (while that may sound cool, we will lose a lot of younger players)

Again, this is MY opinion.  WhAt say YOU? 

EDIT: if I stand alone on this, that's cool too.  BUT...two can play that game.  And I'm "armored" from the torso up, carrying a minimum of 3,000 rounds, and LOVE to use controlled 200 round bursts!  I've got a LOUD gearbox, full face mask, and helmet..... I'LL NEVER HEAR YOU SCREAM.  LETS ROCK \m/

[cloakndagger]

I say if we ever start having major issues with this, we start having game refs and we deal extremely harshly with repeat offenders in our ranks. We dont have that many issues with this right now, and first person to be caught aggregously cheating in this way will have to be made an example of.

[CREEPER™]

Yeah but at op Vengeful Eagle, where we probably had the most admins/refs ever, it happened 3 feet from the refs and it changed NOTHING!

It IS a problem.  It always has.  And unless we change our way of thinking, it always will be.  Tools on the field has always been the most disappointing aspect of airsoft.  How many of us have either gotten VERY angry, left the game early, or even QUIT AIRSOFT over this issue?  A LOT.

[Bravo 37]

Something we tried, it didn't work, was to have the teams police themselves.  So, don't make the trip down that road.

[CREEPER™]

Something we tried, it didn't work, was to have the teams police themselves.  So, don't make the trip down that road.

Yeah that won't work because no one WANTS to rat on a team member, and they all wanna win.

[cloakndagger]

http://ncairsoft.org/forum/showthread.php?12985-Safety-concerns-and-hit-calling-issues
The first paragraph of the first post is a good starting point, i havent finished reading the posts yet.

[nyghtbringer]

the biggest problem with this sport is that it is HONOR based. we expect everyone to call their shots.

this is the Only area I prefer Paintball. At least in paintball, your guaranteed to know if you hit your opponent.

FPS/MED are where they are for safety.  I am against changing them. if we have to intentionally draw blood  get peeps to call hits, then its time for me to sell my guns

[CREEPER™]

I just came up with another idea.   Now yall love to shoot my ideas down before you even think about it, so THINK about this before responding.

We will do this on a test basis next game and see how it works:

After the game, I want EVERYBODY who noticed a hit calling issue to PM me with the name or description of the players who played dishonorably.  Then I'll post up the names in a thread, like
So:

OP KILLEMALL:  DISHONORED PLAYERS LIST..

1. CREEPER- cited by 3 players
2. DYNOMUT- cited by 16 players
3. VADER- cited by 6 players (who later refused to testify for some reason)
4. SPARKY SHINDIG- cited by EVERY player who attended, including himself
5. ARGYLE ASSASSIN- cited by......nevermind. I forgot that's legal now.
6. DER VIKING- cited by local farmer near playing field.


PLAYERS NOTED FOR HAVING DONE A GOOD DEED:

1. CLOAKNDAGGER- helped an old lady cross the road while taking out 3 players with the m60 in his "free" hand.
2. CRIMSONCLAW- brought cookies!


But you guys see the point?  Done in PM form, only I will know who sent it.  Obviously, I'm obligated as co-owner of the forum to NEVER divulge this info.   Not even to BARRICADE.  as a matter of fact, if we can find a way to do it COMPLETELY anonymously, that would be even better.  of course, there will be cases of guys' names being sent to me who DID NOT do anything wrong, but I don't think it would hurt to try it.  There will be no fighting over it as I will eliminate the ability to reply to the thread.  Just keep your nose clean and your name won't ever be there!

NO ONE would want their name on that list.  Ever.  TRUST ME, that list will be anticipated even more than the AAR after the game!

So, tell me why y'all don't like this idea....

[Swayzesghost88]

I like your second idea better creeps. And this issue is what ruins airsoft for more mature players. It's just a game. It's not like you'll be out money if another player gets the best off you. So why in Gods name is it so hard to call a freakin hit?

[CREEPER™]

Right.  Well we could advance our sport if we could ACTUALLY score games.  Scoring games will NEVER happen if we don't get the hit calling under control.  I just think the posting of dishonorable players names MIGHT actually serve as a deterrent.

[Swayzesghost88]

But if we do it like that then there needs to be 2,3, or 4 people that say that about that person. Not just one.

[cloakndagger]

Im with swazee, there needs to be multiple witnesses on different teams preferably and a common sense application. If three people send obviously copied and pasted claims which couldnt be substantiated or are blatant lies, they should make the list. I also like the guy on the link i posted. His idea of a parlay to work it out instead of calling someone out seems to me like a good way to gather info for creepers idea, and to keep the game going better. I would add that if youre both to hot to have a friendly discussion, a ref should be involved and no matter what the ref decides youre both taking a trip to respawn.

This being said, i have not seen signifigant hit calling issues in our network recently, a testament to the quality of all our players. These measures should only come into use if we start having problems with hit calling.

I should also note, some of our respawn/medic scenarios, especialy dropdead respawn, eliminate a lot of the temptation to not call hits. If you know you dont hafta wait on a medic or hike to peru to respawn and all you hafta do is take a seat and walk away after your breather, hit calling issues become hardly worth it.

Just my dos deneros

[VADER]

I agree hit calling is a problem, I've seen it in my short airsoft career.  But in some sinister way I don't mind someone not to calling a hit I made because I get to shoot them more (I like shooting people).  That being said I personally do the honorable thing when I get hit and call it.  There was a time during Red Dawn when Swayze (I think it was Swayze) and I were shooting at each other and I thought I had been hit because I heard it but did not feel it.  Because I did not know for sure that I had been hit I asked Swayze out loud if he hit me.  He said he did, I called it, congratulated him and then respawned.  No big deal but that does legitimately happen.  Swayze and I were shooting at each other at about as far away as we could effectively.  Because of that the bbs were not hitting me hard enough to feel them.  My point is that honor is not something you can force someone to accept (especially when you are dealing with mostly young kids).  How many of us (adults) were totally honorable while playing sports when we were kids?  Kids do not have the life experiences that some of us adults do and have not learned yet the consequences of things such as dishonor.  I say if a person under the age of 18 does not call a hit then one of us adults should take the operatunity to pull the kid aside and talk to him/her about the values of such things as honor.  Some of these kids might not have a role model in their lives to teach such things and (here it comes) WE could possibly be that person(s) to make that difference in their lives!  That's even a heavier responsibility than honor.  NOW as for adults which choose do be dishonorable,  they should be dealt with in a civil manner and held accountable for their actions.  This can be done in one of two ways.  Ther person shooting the dishonorable person can confront him/her and come to an agreement in a civil manner OR the incident can be reported to an Admin who will impose a sanction upon the dishonorable person.  That's all that can really be done about this matter.  I believe creating a "Wall of Shame" has no positive benefit and will only create unnecessary drama.

[CREEPER™]

I think a WALL O SHAME is EXACTLY what we need!  There should be no drama involved because its all done ANONYMOUSLY.  just call your hits, make friends instead of enemies, and you name WONT BE THERE!!!
VADER, I personally KNOW you call your hits, but for the most part, guys who don't like the wall o shame idea, ARE the ones who realize this will expose their dishonorable ways.

BIGJOHN, glad to see that someone else sees that calling someone out for not calling their hits CAN be a good idea and CAN be used effectively.  

CLOAKNDAGGER, thanks for endorsing my beloved DROPDEAD RESPAWN idea.  However, tO this day, at the events I've seen it attempted, it still has only done right by a FEW guys.   It still needs refining, but it's MAIN purpose has shown to be effective.....solving the complexity of the "where is my respawn point" situation AND encourages hit calling because they realize they won't have to walk so far OR stay out of the game too long.  

SWAYZESGHOST88, I agree with you.  That a name should only be posted on the WALL O SHAME if MORE than one nomination is made for that person.  

Maybe I'm stupid.  Or maybe I'm seeing this from an "outside the box" perspective, but I believe the combo of WALL O SHAME and DROPDEAD RESPAWN will curb a LOT of these issues.  

We just CAN'T leave it Alone and hope that younger players will figure it out one day.  The problem spans all ages.  Just LOOK what these dishonorable player have done to the moral of BRAVO and MADRULE!!!!!!!  These guys are providing HIGH QUALITY events for us and they're considering putting their events on the back burner due to this!

THIS HAS TO BE TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY!!

[RABDAKK]

Man,
   
    Everyone has fantastic ideas about how to minimize the hit calling issue.  I hope that in the future we can have a remedy for the majority of dishonorable players.  Its great playing with you guys also.  Dispite what happened saturday, I still had fun playing.